[9/15/12 11:33:39 PM] sam: ugh
[9/15/12 11:33:53 PM] sam: curse you iTunes and your not giving me Doctor Who until 3AM!
[9/15/12 11:40:17 PM] alanah: lol
[9/15/12 11:46:17 PM] sam: it’s just so sad though
[9/15/12 11:46:50 PM] sam: in roughly 24 hours we’ll only have 2 episodes of the Ponds left
[9/15/12 11:48:10 PM] sam: i’m too excited to find out what happens to them though
[9/15/12 11:48:43 PM] sam: i dunno i’ll miss them…but…not that much
[9/15/12 11:48:50 PM] sam: there’s always someone else
[9/15/12 11:49:17 PM] alanah: ugh
[9/15/12 11:49:19 PM] sam: Amy’s kind of pathetic right now…not that she doesn’t have reason to be i suppose
[9/15/12 11:49:21 PM] alanah: I DONT WANT AMY TO DIE
[9/15/12 11:49:34 PM] alanah: i know
[9/15/12 11:49:44 PM] alanah: like, yeah, ill miss them, but its time
[9/15/12 11:49:58 PM] sam: yeah
[9/15/12 11:50:03 PM] alanah: at this point, i feel like its actually hurting them to be a part of the story
[9/15/12 11:50:23 PM] alanah: they need to stop or theyre only going to destroy themselves
[9/15/12 11:50:28 PM] alanah: they may have done so already
[9/15/12 11:50:32 PM] alanah: i mean, amy is so damaged
[9/15/12 11:50:38 PM] alanah: and rory is always always settling
[9/15/12 11:50:40 PM] sam: i was reading a blog earlier that was all like, the Pond’s are some of the most pathetic Doctor Who companions because they don’t DO anything when the doctor’s away
[9/15/12 11:50:53 PM] alanah: thats not true
[9/15/12 11:51:02 PM] alanah: they just dont do anything particularly healthy
[9/15/12 11:51:20 PM] sam: like all the other companions except for Donna did something to try to help people, or the planet
[9/15/12 11:51:39 PM] sam: Donna was kind of an exception, but also sort of not really an exception
[9/15/12 11:51:48 PM] sam: Donna’s quite similar to the Ponds
[9/15/12 11:52:07 PM] sam: but yeah i don’t entirely agree with it, but it is a little disheartening
[9/15/12 11:52:17 PM] sam: that like rose ended up helping out Torchwood
[9/15/12 11:52:23 PM] sam: Martha joined up with UNIT
[9/15/12 11:52:33 PM] sam: Sarah Jane had plenty of adventures on her own
[9/15/12 11:53:03 PM] sam: The Captain was doing stuff before the doctor so I don’t think he really counts, he was always the hero type
[9/15/12 11:53:33 PM] sam: but they were all like inspired by the doctor to do something to help the planet that they now realized was in almost contant danger of being destroyed
[9/15/12 11:53:58 PM] alanah: i feel like its horrible to think theyre pathetic for being normal
[9/15/12 11:54:15 PM] sam: Rose’s whole speech about seeing a different way to live your life…and then doing it even though he was apart from them
[9/15/12 11:54:17 PM] alanah: when the doctor is gone, they are married, and work, and pursue legitimate careers
[9/15/12 11:54:23 PM] sam: not Amy though
[9/15/12 11:54:27 PM] sam: Rory yeah
[9/15/12 11:54:28 PM] alanah: theres nothing pathetic about that
[9/15/12 11:54:34 PM] alanah: no, amy did the perfume thing
[9/15/12 11:54:39 PM] alanah: she pursued an active career
[9/15/12 11:54:55 PM] alanah: its not a “im saving the world” one, but does that make her pathetic?
[9/15/12 11:54:57 PM] sam: yeah but I don’t get the sense that she really cares about it
[9/15/12 11:56:05 PM] alanah: i dunno, that seems like an unfair expectation, that by traveling with the doctor you’re automatically supposed to do something specifically planet-affecting or world-saving with your life once you’re done
[9/15/12 11:56:13 PM] sam: i mean there’s nothing wrong with her wanting to have a normal life, like i didn’t think martha was wrong for wanting to leave the Doctor and pursue her career as a doctor, since it was only later that she did the whole UNIT thing
[9/15/12 11:56:22 PM] alanah: most companions begin with him just for fun, or to see something new
[9/15/12 11:56:46 PM] alanah: once thats done, why shouldnt they go back to what they were if thats what they want?
[9/15/12 11:56:55 PM] alanah: amys problem is she doesnt want to leave the doctor ever
[9/15/12 11:57:27 PM] alanah: she has never grown up past being the girl who waits for him to come get her and take her away to nowhere specific
[9/15/12 11:57:30 PM] sam: it’s just the fact that Amy doesn’t want a life without him at all, it’s feels like she’s trying to convince herself that she does but she said she doesn’t want to be weaned off of him. Even if she was off trying to save the planet I don’t think she’d be happy if the Doctor wasn’t there
[9/15/12 11:57:39 PM] sam: yup
[9/15/12 11:57:39 PM] alanah: thats true
[9/15/12 11:57:45 PM] alanah: but does that make her pathetic?
[9/15/12 11:57:48 PM] alanah: no
[9/15/12 11:58:03 PM] alanah: she has emotional issues, and character flaws maybe
[9/15/12 11:58:09 PM] alanah: she’s devastatingly human
[9/15/12 11:58:23 PM] alanah: but she’s not pathetic…
[9/15/12 11:58:48 PM] sam: i mean it’s really sad, it’s like do i want to say that one of my favorite characters on television is pathetic, no, it sounds harsh and uncaring…but I really feel like she’s just sad…
[9/15/12 11:59:09 PM] sam: nothing in her life, still, makes any sense
[9/15/12 11:59:14 PM] sam: and it’s not her fault
[9/15/12 11:59:20 PM] sam: she’s like a crack baby
[9/15/12 11:59:30 PM] alanah: wow
[9/16/12 12:00:15 AM] alanah: honestly, i dont think she’s that sad. i mean, her story is upsetting, and she’s so damaged, but she’s also extraordinarily resilient and functional, and intelligent, and passionate, and surprising and capable
[9/16/12 12:01:07 AM] alanah: she’s not helpless, and she’s not crumbling into insanity. she’s not evil, and she’s not even like, a bad person
[9/16/12 12:01:22 AM] alanah: she’s very strong, even when she’s co-dependent
[9/16/12 12:02:01 AM] alanah: why discount that? because by comparison to other companions she’s done less with her spare time? i dunno….that doesnt make sense to me. it seems….scapegoaty.
[9/16/12 12:04:06 AM] alanah: it seems like then its her own fault if she dies
[9/16/12 12:04:25 AM] alanah: or if her marriage falls apart, or however she stops being a companion
[9/16/12 12:04:56 AM] sam: she grew up in like this twisted version of reality, and even after they rebooted the universe and she was supposed to have a normal life with a family, she just wanted to escape it. I mean she does cool things sometimes, and clearly she’s grown as a person and made the realization that she loved Rory, but I just don’t feel like she gets how bad she gets sometimes. Like how numb she was about the divorce to Rory’s face, and i don’t know. she’s realized that she’s kind of messed up, and she’s talking like she doesn’t care if she dies becasue of the doctor.
[9/16/12 12:04:59 AM] alanah: when, really, almost everything amy is, good and bad, is the doctor’s fault
[9/16/12 12:05:19 AM] alanah: i agree with all of that
[9/16/12 12:05:24 AM] sam: yeah i mean whatever happens to Amy or Rory is as much the doctor’s fault as it is Amy’s
[9/16/12 12:05:30 AM] sam: but at this point
[9/16/12 12:05:48 AM] alanah: but i guess i just dont see how “damaged” moves straight to something like “pathetic.”
[9/16/12 12:05:49 AM] sam: They know the risks, and they’re continuing to tag a long, at least in the last episode
[9/16/12 12:05:55 AM] alanah: yeah
[9/16/12 12:06:11 AM] alanah: it has to come to a head, and i know it will
[9/16/12 12:07:13 AM] alanah: but when it does, i hope people know its because it’s whats best, or because the doctor, like rory said, makes them dangerous to themselves, but not because amy is somehow less of a person than other companions.
[9/16/12 12:07:51 AM] sam: i mean they’re engaging in an activity that they know is detrimental to their lives and could potentially kill them. They know the risks and yet they keep on doing it. I just don’t like anything about the situation at all, and I’m really really hoping that it’s explained better because i’d like to think that the doctor isn’t just being selfish…even though that could totally be it right now.
[9/16/12 12:07:56 AM] alanah: amy, i think, is one of the best of the companions
[9/16/12 12:08:31 AM] alanah: personally, i think he’s being selfish. i think he knows it too
[9/16/12 12:09:01 AM] alanah: and i think thats why he’s doing these weird things like taking genocide in stride and killing someone on a whim
[9/16/12 12:09:18 AM] alanah: i think he’s trying to somehow justify what he’s doing wrong by doing other wrong things
[9/16/12 12:09:38 AM] alanah: to be like “this is who i am now, i do these kind of things, so people shouldnt be surprised or make me feel guilty, right?”
[9/16/12 12:09:49 AM] alanah: he’s so very old, and yet, so very childish, in some ways
[9/16/12 12:10:02 AM] alanah: but maybe theyll prove me wrong in that supposition
[9/16/12 12:10:15 AM] sam: she has been one of the best companions, and i think a big part of that is because of her almost blind faith in the Doctor, that the man with the magic box can fix everything. Despite the fact that she has watched races and loved ones die countless times at his hand. but she continues to love him, like we all continue to love him, because he does the best he can…usually
[9/16/12 12:10:37 AM] sam: but i’m also upset about the way things are going because her faith in him is supposed to be broken
[9/16/12 12:10:40 AM] alanah: yeah
[9/16/12 12:10:54 AM] alanah: well, i dont understand
[9/16/12 12:10:59 AM] alanah: because i agree with all of that
[9/16/12 12:11:04 AM] alanah: i find it upsetting too
[9/16/12 12:11:04 AM] sam: yet she obviously still will follow him to the ends of the earth
[9/16/12 12:12:23 AM] alanah: but why does that mean amy is pathetic? how is she suddenly below other companions in this? thats blind faith, yes, love even, and childhood issues in full adult form, but when does she go from worthwhile to pathetic?
[9/16/12 12:17:52 AM] alanah: aw man
[9/16/12 12:17:53 AM] alanah: lol
[9/16/12 12:17:57 AM] sam: i mean personally if I was in Amy’s position, and i’m trying to find a marginally acceptable emotional substitute here which is hard, I would just be chillin not being able to focus on my life just fixed on getting something far away and intangible that I know I want. I wouldn’t feel like the life I was living was worthwhile without that thing in it. If I were in a position like that I think I would feel pretty pathetic. It just feels like she’s given up on her life entirely. And it’s hard to really know, because we see so little of the Pond’s life. She could’ve had and quit 5 different jobs, no one has any clue what Rory’s doing.
[9/16/12 12:18:38 AM] alanah: hm
[9/16/12 12:19:29 AM] alanah: i dont know that amy feels pathetic…i mean, i almost think she’s not truly aware of her self and her problems
[9/16/12 12:19:35 AM] alanah: i dont think she really knows herself
[9/16/12 12:19:48 AM] sam: no i think she’s really unaware of most of her own emotions
[9/16/12 12:19:56 AM] alanah: she seems almost oblivious
[9/16/12 12:19:57 AM] alanah: yeah
[9/16/12 12:20:31 AM] alanah: so we can make judgement about “amy probably feels this way” necessarily
[9/16/12 12:20:40 AM] alanah: but even if she did, does feeling one way make you that way?
[9/16/12 12:20:53 AM] alanah: if i feel like a loser, am i then a loser?
[9/16/12 12:21:00 AM] alanah: if i feel worthless, am i worthless?
[9/16/12 12:21:23 AM] alanah: i think we’d say no. so whether or not amy feels pathetic is irrelevant, isnt it?
[9/16/12 12:21:31 AM] sam: i suppose
[9/16/12 12:21:47 AM] sam: but i think the whole feeling one way and actually being that way is entirely dependent on the feeling
[9/16/12 12:22:36 AM] alanah: side note: if [CENSORED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT] could see half of our convos, he’d be so turned on
[9/16/12 12:22:47 AM] sam: if you were to consider positive states of being instead of negative ones you’d probably say the opposite
[9/16/12 12:22:49 AM] alanah: we are like, the philosopher’s wet dream
[9/16/12 12:22:48 AM] sam: lol
[9/16/12 12:22:51 AM] alanah: side note over.
[9/16/12 12:23:08 AM] alanah: i dont know
[9/16/12 12:23:50 AM] alanah: you said, “if i were amy, id feel that way”, and i would say that, if i were in amys position, i wouldnt feel pathetic, id feel incomplete without the doctor. id feel paused
[9/16/12 12:24:23 AM] alanah: and i dont think id feel wrong or guilty about it. id probably even be a bit manic about it. i wouldnt even be fully aware it wasnt fully healthy.
[9/16/12 12:24:55 AM] alanah: but in that sense, what i “feel” would still have no bearing on the issue – whether or not amy is in fact pathetic
[9/16/12 12:25:28 AM] sam: well i think i would feel pathetic if I were in that sort of position, if i were Amy I don’t think i would because yeah i don’t think she gets how bad she is
[9/16/12 12:25:44 AM] alanah: and, since we’re not amy, and we dont know a lot of the details that inform amy, like the specifics of the jobs she’s applied for or the life she lives at home, we probably cant make a self-insertion judgement anyway
[9/16/12 12:26:01 AM] alanah: again, you say how bad amy is
[9/16/12 12:26:19 AM] alanah: i would submit that amy isnt “bad”
[9/16/12 12:26:37 AM] alanah: like, what she’s doing isnt safe, or the wisest decision
[9/16/12 12:27:06 AM] sam: probably the opposite…
[9/16/12 12:27:10 AM] alanah: but its not inherently wrong, and its not like anyone is really even saying “hey amy, stop”
[9/16/12 12:27:28 AM] alanah: no one is holding her accountable, and so she really isnt even being stubborn
[9/16/12 12:27:34 AM] alanah: she’s not ignoring anyone, no one is saying aything
[9/16/12 12:27:40 AM] sam: yeah, except for the Doctor…and now he’s just letting it happen again
[9/16/12 12:27:50 AM] alanah: well, thats on him
[9/16/12 12:28:28 AM] alanah: he’s putting her in dangerous situations, and she goes with him because she thrives on them, and loves him, and she enjoys the adventures, and she’s come to like them more than anything she has back home
[9/16/12 12:28:53 AM] alanah: it sucks for rory, but its not insane, or morally wrong, necessarily
[9/16/12 12:29:10 AM] alanah: she’s a bit of a crappy wife, but still, i dont see the “pathetic” part of this
[9/16/12 12:29:12 AM] sam: and Rory, like Rory is just along for the ride no matter what. He KNOWS that going along could kill them, he’s of all people has always realized how dangerous it is. I don’t understand how he is in any way ok with it, but he (and Brian) are probably the only reasons Amy said they had to go back home at the end of dinosaurs
[9/16/12 12:29:47 AM] alanah: but the point is that amy did say, we have to go back
[9/16/12 12:29:54 AM] alanah: she made the right decision, then
[9/16/12 12:30:13 AM] alanah: so she’s still got some priorities, and can make wise decisions, from time to time
[9/16/12 12:30:33 AM] sam: she’s just utterly incapable of making the most important one
[9/16/12 12:30:49 AM] alanah: and that makes her pathetic?
[9/16/12 12:31:26 AM] alanah: id submit that every character is incapable of making some all important decision
[9/16/12 12:31:32 AM] alanah: but that doesnt make them pathetic
[9/16/12 12:32:27 AM] alanah: like, what is the thing? what is the thing that distinguishes her, that makes her, or her and rory, if we’re still grouping them, the most pathetic companions. i just…i dont get it.
[9/16/12 12:35:11 AM] alanah: everything she is, other characters have been to some degree, and almost all of it only makes her a more impressive by what she’s done in spite of it. so i just dont know what this person is talking about. she’s pathetic because….why? she makes bad decisons? so did everyone. she needs the doctor? so did rose. she puts herself and others in danger? so did everyone except maybe donna. i dunno…i just dont see it i guess.
[9/16/12 12:35:55 AM] alanah: in fact, she’s a lot like the doctor. maybe thats why he has such a hard time letting go of her. he sees some of himself in her
[9/16/12 12:36:42 AM] alanah: dependence on the adventure, on time travel, on escapism, on danger-highs, on illogical bravery. inability to maintain fully-healthy romantic relationships. great hair
[9/16/12 12:36:47 AM] alanah: good fashion sense
[9/16/12 12:36:50 AM] alanah: wit
[9/16/12 12:37:06 AM] alanah: amy is, in a lot of ways, only ever becoming more and more like the doctor
[9/16/12 12:37:25 AM] alanah: and if that makes her pathetic, then i dont know why we love the doctor so much.